Donna Quesada: And it looks like it’s willingness in seeing your half in shaping the pattern that is in place.
I was watching one other session and a lady was harm that her boyfriend didn’t assist her move. And to make it much less abstract and more tangible… as a result of these are the problems that everybody has… you have been into their tales, as I was, when I watched. I thought, wow.… I can be harm too. I keep in mind being in an identical state of affairs… I had a headache and someone I was seeing didn’t come and verify on me, at the time. And I had this idea, I’m all the time there for you… why didn’t you come to verify on me? So, I was relating and placing my stories in there, as other individuals have been telling you theirs.
Byron Katie: I love these YouTube things. Or, we put them on thework.com or byronkatie.com. They really are supporting a lot of people, simply following alongside, as I’m sitting with someone I’m working with.
DONNA: As a result of the mind needs to argue. I’m watching and I’m considering, sure… he should have helped. When can we get to draw a line, and say, “that’s not okay?” “It actually is a fault on the outside…”
KATIE: It exhibits up. “He wasn’t there for me.” Or, “he didn’t come help me.” Was that it? He didn’t help me. I didn’t help me. So now, I need to take a seat in… What might I have accomplished that I needed him to do?
DONNA: So, she’s turning it around. Slightly than placing it on him and getting mad that he didn’t do what she needed him to do.
KATIE: Let’s just say, I’m still indignant. It doesn’t matter. I’m simply making an attempt on the shoe. I didn’t come assist me. So, I’m just taking a look at where I might have helped myself and I didn’t. I mean, there are two of us, right here. One is nearer than the opposite. And I didn’t help me. So now, I understand why he wouldn’t. His thoughts is probably as full as mine was. I don’t know. However I was there and I might have helped me. That is, if I might validly discover a means to assist me for what I needed him to do. So now, I’m not a sufferer. I’m slowly getting there. I’m not a victim. We are never a victim, it’s what we’re considering and believing that may trigger us to consider that. So additionally, now, I’m being responsible. I’m not dependent. One stock like that. One take a look at myself, like that. Going by way of these questions can change my whole id from helpless victim, dependent sufferer, to somebody who was there for me. To somebody who actually does care about me, who I get up with in the morning, and fall asleep with at night time.
DONNA: And someone who feels empowered.
KATIE: You want someone who is empowered. I don’t need to be. I am. I’m there for me. And I’m not dependent. And then, there’s another turn round. “He didn’t come help me.” “I didn’t go help him.” So, am I capable of rise up and go in and say, “you know, honey? I had the thought I really needed you for like a glass of water or something. And I noticed you weren’t there. What were you going through?” And he may just snicker, and say, “my God, I didn’t even give you a thought.” After which, you’ll be able to both snigger collectively since you understand that should you weren’t considering of him, why would he be considering of you. So, there is just one individual to vary in my world and I stay together with her. That’s duty. That’s being accountable. However I can’t shift the world into serving me. I can shift myself into serving the world and then, I can see that the world has all the time served me. Non-stop. With out exception. So, my work… Something I have, is all the time free on byronkatie.com.
DONNA: You’ve stated that flaws in others are your personal projections. And that was a fantastic option to sum up what you’re speaking about, which is that this invitation to all the time look within, and not level your finger at what others are doing.
KATIE: Any flaw I see in one other human being… If I don’t remain related to that human being… compassionate, caring, related… Whether or not we speak or not… There’s an understanding that permits me to attach. If I’m not in that mind-set, regardless of who I run throughout, or see in the human race, then, there’s something off in me. There needs to be…
DONNA: We have been talking about a number of the case research that you simply’ve handled, and that I was moved by. Are there any that stand out, notably, for you? That have been so shifting that you’ll just never forget? A therapeutic expertise?
KATIE: Properly, I don’t know that I gained’t overlook it. I couldn’t know that. We’ve got a Being with Byron Katie occasion, as soon as a month, I assume. It’s on my calendar. However she was so traumatized. Her dialog was… Jason, what would you say? I was so scattered. Words making a sentence wouldn’t even come off collectively. Anyway, she was from Brazil, and the violence that she had skilled… And seeing, if I recall, a man murdered. And seeing a bit of woman standing over this lifeless body. The panic round her. Photographs and remembrances like that. Her family needs her to spend extra time in Brazil. And she or he was really terrified and does not need to go. And so, I worked together with her. And I assume that is going up on YouTube, as properly. I’m positive that it’ll.I just don’t know when. Or, I’ve been informed that it’ll. We did the work on three totally different concepts that she was believing… and judgements. And then, by the top, she was so still. And in our discussion, she might put words collectively. It was extremely radical. And so, here is a little woman. Here’s a lady.
DONNA: Was it one specific turn-around that turned the important thing?
KATIE: No, those turn arounds are nothing, except one other religion individuals take on with out the enlightenment that those four questions may give. As a result of by the point you might have gone via the 4 questions… these turn arounds… Simply reminding everyone, this can be a meditative course of. And I don’t call it The Work for nothing. It’s earned. It takes silence. It takes stillness. Mindfulness. Whatever phrases we put on it. It’s the real deal as a result of it only includes you and what meets the questions. And it takes an open thoughts.
DONNA: Because it is these tales that make us endure. You’ve stated that the truth is all the time kinder than our stories.
KATIE: All the time, all the time, all the time… Every part is kinder than what we’re believing about it. It’s past description. And it’s movable. And it waits for us to catch up with it.
DONNA: I keep in mind years in the past in my Zen apply. Our Zen instructor would all the time tell us to “get out of our minds.” And yet, this course of includes the mind…
KATIE: Properly, it’s how your thoughts creates the phantasm. Like, I noticed on the ground… If I didn’t consider it’s a window, it wasn’t a window. It didn’t exist. After which, I noticed it, and I noticed that it had a name. Earlier than a name, it didn’t exist. In different words, identification. So, get out of the mind. But how do I do this? I assume that’s what this work was born for. To point out us. And all the good masters have pointed to what? And I know I definitely couldn’t point individuals to what. I can point them to loads of struggling. A variety of freedom, but that’s inside me, and this work wouldn’t depart anyone out. If it wouldn’t depart me out, then it wouldn’t depart anybody out. If it have been troublesome to do, or it took brains… If somebody like me can get this easy work, than anyone can. And I assume that is actually good news.
DONNA: Working with the mind, with the thoughts. We name that Jnana Yoga, in the Yogic tradition.Nicely, it’s spelled in in a funny means. Jnana Yoga. However individuals say, Gyan Yoga. As a result of… the mind is so pesky and it will get hooked on things. And I considered this analogy of the splinter. We aren’t supposed to select it. We’ve obtained to select it the fitting means first, so then we will depart it alone for good. So, we’ve acquired to take a look at it the appropriate approach, and take a look at the assumption that’s askew. And then, we will depart it alone and get it out of our minds.
KATIE: So, I assume I’m asking the same factor, if I am hearing you appropriately. I’m asking you to query it. But you do, anyway.
DONNA: We type of pull out that belief that we’re hooked up to.
KATIE: If we pull it out and put it on paper… And, put it within the relative state of affairs, that we have been experiencing it in, and do the process that you simply and I simply sat by means of, and take out the word time… It’s not over ‘till it’s over. And then, on the other aspect, going again to the gentleman you identified, “She doesn’t listen to me”… Or yours, “He didn’t come help me when I needed it.” “I didn’t help him when he needed it.” Did he need help? Or, I take a look at the occasions when he needed me, and I thought, he really doesn’t. You understand, I’m meditating in my life, with him… to see where these turn-arounds… the place the shoe matches.
DONNA: The place I played a task… This struggling, that I am creating for myself.
KATIE: And even on my sick mattress, when I’m capable of say, “sweetheart, the other day, I really needed you… when I was sick, and I wondered what was going on with you during that time…” And then, pay attention. Now, if someone says principally, “I don’t care about you at all and I want to leave you.” Then, that’s simply what I would call another worksheet. What am I considering and believing about him in that moment, that he would say such a thing? And so, all that belongs on paper… because another human being can’t harm me. What I’m considering and believing about that human being… that’s what hurts me and that’s never going to vary. This world isn’t set up where other individuals harm different individuals. What they are saying and do is just not an issue. What we are considering and believing about what they are saying and do… That’s our drawback. That doesn’t imply the other individual is true. It simply is true… That I am the cause of my very own struggling. And the struggling… So long as I’m still in that explanation for suffering, I am going to cause hurt on the planet.
DONNA: I like to see the parallels in several traditions. Fact is fact is fact, I’ve discovered. And I’ve found that in your strategy. Going back to buddha… it does parallel nicely with the self-inflicted struggling… But, you are going a bit deeper. You’re asking this query: “How exactly, am I conceiving the situation? What exactly, am I telling myself about it?” Quite than simply saying, “it’s an attachment…” it’s an attachment, in the form of a perception that I am lighting up with my mind.
KATIE: Sure. Because should you change the words belief and attachment, it’s the identical factor. It’s simply another word for attachment. I mean, in case you are considering of one thing that you are not considering of right now, and that thing involves mind and also you consider it, you’ve simply hooked up. And that’s not right or incorrect. It’s just what you’re doing. If there’s some guilt there, then I would pull that out of my head. Convey it into the world by placing it on paper. After which sit and meditate on these 4 questions. It is simply that.
DONNA: What about the concept we should always just give it to God and not do all of this evaluation?
KATIE: That might assume that you’re separate from God. However you are not… So, begin with you and provides God a break. And it might become that supreme.
DONNA: Because God is within. Once I begin to see by means of God’s eyes, I am doing the work.
KATIE: Which is… sure. Which is, the thoughts that does so superbly, on this work. That mind…
DONNA: As a result of God couldn’t see dangerous. And such as you simply stated, the world isn’t arrange such that we harm each other. That’s simply not what our nature is. So, if I give up to God, I give up to that good nature that is the real me.
KATIE: yes, and that is what inquiry asks of us. To be that surrendered, as we sit in it. As we sit in these questions.
DONNA: Is that what enlightenment is?
KATIE: The word enlightenment… I haven’t any training in terms like that. Enlightenment to me, is just the absence of struggling and being conscious. And not believing my darkish ideas…but questioning them. Placing a light-weight on them.
DONNA: Katie, why is there a lot imbalance on the planet at the moment, given its inherently good nature? Especially, with regard to female and masculine energies? There appears to be so much of this masculine… and proper me if that’s not the best way you wish to phrase it… this type of violence, or exaggerated, action-based…
KATIE: If I see violence on the earth, and I don’t have an understanding in that… Like, I perceive violence. Anyone who would harm another human being, or animal… I know why they might do this. They’re believing their ideas. How might they not? And, how can I anticipate someone to be awake to their considering, if I am perceiving that somebody is doing hurt and will know better? Then, I have to do a worksheet on that human being. So, look to your self… to a time once you have been believing… you stated, or did one thing that you simply felt guilty over.
If you return to that, and also you get so nonetheless, that you could determine what you have been considering, or believing, just prior to the second that you simply stated or did that factor you are feeling guilty over… Is it even attainable that you might not have finished what you did or stated? It’s not attainable. That’s the lifetime of a believer. We’re caught on this imagined id of previous/future… pictures… and, what we are believing onto the pictures in our head, and that’s the dream. That’s the dream world.
There’s me at breakfast. I see it. There’s me at dinner tonight. I see it. And there’s me sitting here talking to you. Properly, what number of selves? No marvel we are confused, if I actually consider that. And now, this second. Now. Now, the place did it go? How can we cease believing in a moment, we’re believing? The place is our compassion? Where is our understanding? Till we will see the cause of all suffering, we ourselves are the one. We ourselves are the cause. Like, if I see somebody who did a cruel act, I know why that human being did it. They are believing their ideas and there is no means out of that.
So, my invitation to the world is, it’s only what I’ve grow to be aware of… is, the place am I struggling? Where am I inflicting suffering? And to determine what I’m believing. I gave him the look. Why? Because I was believing an id onto him. So, who am I giving the look to? The individual I imagine him to be, or him? It’s all the time the individual I think about him to be. That makes me the loopy one. Not him. That makes me the cruel one. Not him. He’s my push. All these individuals on the planet which are doing harm. You asked, “What about them?” They’re your push. They’re my push. And that’s not finished, till it’s finished.
DONNA: How about when it’s inherent in a culture? For instance, that ladies aren’t given the same rights? Or, homosexuals? Or, any group that’s marginalized or oppressed? And, the assumption that we’re telling ourselves, when stuck in this type of collective perception system, is that there’s a superiority there, or lesser than…. That the other is lesser than?
KATIE: I would first assume, how superior of me, to see it that means. I imply, who do I assume I am? Like, all those individuals, they are flawed. I say, what kind of authority am I wielding? If I should battle for justice. To struggle over… Just to struggle. Simply to know the truth is the top of warfare! So, I straighten it out in myself. And, if I am kidnapped and put in a state of affairs with males, and I’m going to be a slave, and they are ordering me around, and they are abusing me, if I don’t do what they say. I’ve obtained something more highly effective than that, Donna, and we all do, and it’s inside us. I can’t watch for the human race to vary. As a result of it might take some time. But as this modifications… As I turn into a kinder, extra conscious human being… In other words, I would decide them…query it… know myself slightly higher. And each time I do, I’m capable of connect with the very human beings I saw as enemies. And the place they’re imply… That’s not going to make me imply to know. If I don’t perceive I am mean. The means we take a look at them, speak about them, treat them… There has acquired to be one thing beyond that.
DONNA: That connection. That factor that you’ve.
KATIE: Understanding. And that connection comes out of an understanding.
Continued in Part III…
Learn and Watch Part I Right here: Awaken Interviews Byron Katie Pt 1 – Awakening Is The Absence Of Suffering